Cesna Anida: As an educator (education specialist), why do you think teaching students about art is essential and crucial? And what are the best practices to do this? Of course, madami pong practices all over the board. And I think I would like just to have something, like your favorite or like 1-2 frameworks. Also, I am not only talking about students that art majors but also someone outside. Na sasabihin nila hindi naman ako artist, hindi naman ako creative ba’t kaylangan ko tong matutunan?
Mary Ann Pernia: OK. First and foremost, I like to point out that I like that you place two words. First, the idea that art is essential and second art is crucial. I do believe that, kaya nga ako pumasok nang, the art is important and necessary because the idea of imagination should be strengthened and encourage. That’s where art comes in and that’s why I believe it is important to teach art.
And it is crucial, especially in this time efficiency is seen to be keen and the idea of having something “non-functioning”, walang gamit, not useful in a sense that people talk about usefulness and functionality. It might not be directly related to GDP, etc. na nami-measure agad, I am not saying that it’s not. But there is an importance to create a space for that because it slowly set aside even in education or formal education, and that’s what medium spaces serve and function for not only young learners but also for everyone who is willing to learn.
I am still every much influence by Aileen [?] she talks about constructivist theory in creating medium learning or looking at medium learning that’s the one that guides me. We try to look at different practices here and abroad.
CA: OK po. Yung first point po narealize ko nga po, narerelate ko po sya sa capitalism, that everything should be fast, should be quantifiable and that economic structure na pina-prioritize usually right now pati yung learning ng students naaapektuhan kasi we favor quantitative subjects like sciences, math but the truth is hindi naman talaga ganoon nagwowork ang humans I believe.
MAP: Di ba if you do not have imagination all the rest won’t work, we do not have progress. So it is really crucial for them to see that imagination has a place.
CA: Yes, that creativity and it really happened slow pace.
MAP: And it does not necessary have to do with production. It is as early as thinking about it, going through it in your mind that’s already imagination. Not necessarily ay dapat may nagawa ako, ay may idea ako dapat isulat ko kaaagad. You can but you can also choose not too but you have space and time to do all those stuff and that’s what a medium space would provide.
CA: Yes, exactly! So nice, it’s like the joy in the process than producing something. So you’re in that space to enjoy whatever float in your mind not to necessarily immediately put it into something tangible.
MAP: Actually, that is the current bias di ba? Ay! Meron akong idea produce agad to seen in the market. So it’s about slowing down in this case, especially in the light of learning.
CA: Oo nga po ang hirap nga pong maging estudyante and ang daming nirerequire from you. Personally, speaking nangyayari sya right now on my end na parang nakakalimutan ko ng mag-aral talaga. Insteadof focusing on the students, I focus on submitting the requirements. And hindi po yun yung point!
MAP: Yes, that’s not the point of education or at least that not how I imagined education to be.
CA: I am already enjoying this po! So the second question in the mission statement of MCAD, it was mentioned that it is “distinct locally for its position as a non-collecting institution.” Why is that? What I mean for “why is that?” is that it is really interesting for a museum to tell that they don’t have a collection, and in my mind what it painted is an empty box of a space.
MAP: Have you been to MCAD?
CA: I haven’t pa po! Will plan to go there after this pandemic.
MAP: Tama ka it is really just a space, and that space changes so often depending on the exhibitions and that’s where the work of our head curator comes in. So unlike other museums at least in the country we really don’t have a collection. It is an advantage in a sense that we do not have to spend a lot on storage and preservation. This is not to say that, when we do have exhibitions we still preserve the artworks, we make sure they are stored when they come into the museum and when they ready to go out. Wala kami nung paranf “ilalabas natin si ano”, wala kaming problemang ganyan. But we do function as an exhibition hall. But what our head of exhibition do they communicate with other institutions within the region and in the country, they do their research and then they come up with a program for exhitions.
CA: So in line po doon, may naisip po akong question. Paano po yung mga taong gusto nilang magdonate? Do you turn that down?
MAP: We do unfortunately, because when you do accept a donation probably like in other museums, you have a responsibility to store, preserve and exhibit it. Wala kasi kaming ganoon, we cannot accept, for MCAD for the CSB, but I think there will be other museums in De Lasalle system, I know there is a museum in Bacolod, there is also museum in Dasmarñias, Cavite, and of course there is a museum in Taft, they might be able to accept donations.
CA: So in line with that mission how does its vision of “how can this characteristic of the museum support its vision of developing an innovative and inclusionary paradigm with its accessibility ranges not only across social classes but also of knowledges?”
MAP: Yun nga, our programming especially exhibition programming are set at least two-years in advance. It’s very difficult now with the pandemic, but that why we have meetings, researches and our head of exhibition would ask “ano na?” and of course, we are in the global conversation and we look at it not just particularly art related noh. Like eto yung issues ngayon, climate change, urbanization. So how they are being dealt with by artists and institutions and look at different artist and institutions that are willing to partner with us and we create a program for that both for exhibitions and education. In terms of inclusionary, kapag gagawa ng exhibition design kung video yon pwede bang may sub-titles? Papayag ba yung artist? So there is another form of access. But of course we also understand that not all artworks are accessible to the public. But here is a request to make it more accessible we try to accommodate that, ano pwedeng gawin to reach a wider audience.
CA: Its like yung artist na nirereach out nyo na mag-eexhibit in MCAD, they can use that space the way that they want it and you try to serve their purpose, in a way?
MAP: Somehow what I understand on the process of exhibition, the curator and head of exhibition they speak to an artist or an institution with the artwork we would like to have for the exhibition. We have this exhibition and we would like this artwork and we have this plan. They show them the floor plan, and some cases in the past when we were able to travel we would bring them in so they can see the space, so they can see where their work will be. And then the head of the exhibition and curator will work and negotiate with the artist to make sure that the work is in the best light.
CA: So both interest will be serve in a way. Napunta po tayo sa curating, but going back to education! As the Head of Education and Special Projects for MCAD Manila, how do you think university museums become effective in teaching or providing tools for instructions for students? How do DLS – CSB encourage their students to use MCAD?
MAP: In our case, makulit ako sa mga teachers and professors. For example I ask the Design we have this talk, we have this exhibition would you like to come in? For example, kaylangan naming magvisit ng museum can we go visit your museum? And we work with them asking anong gusto nyo in term of casting the tour, anong gusto nyong malaman ng mga estudyante nyo? And if they’re teacher themselves mas effective yung learning since yung goals nila alam namin and they gave us feedback. And that is in terms of the tour. In terms of the talk they tell and gave us comments, like have somebody that help us do more research and help us in research area. And that’s an exciting part of learning because that is what they want people to continue learning, exploring areas not necessarily are related but working on the issue of the community.
CA: I imagine po, even students do exhibitions in MCAD?
MAP: There is actually an office that focus on the works of students and faculty, and that is the Center for Campus Art. We used to work with the students pero nahihirapan sila in the scheduling. We hosted before an annula, we call it “The Anuale” we had that for two years then nagkaroon ng Center for Campus Art which focus on using different spaces in the College of Saint Benilde to exhibit the works of students and faculty.
CA: So they have an hands-on experience on creating their own exhibition. And I think ganun din po yung ginagawa sa amin ni Ma’am Tessa gusto nya talaga practical. Wala nan ga po kaming final exam dito eto na sya. For her it does not make sense na may final exam but to put it on practice whatever you’re learning.
Eto po pandemic, so ang laki po talaga ng effect sa education system natin right now. We shift to virtual and people cannot meet so how did the MCAD adjust and continue implementing your projects, especially projects geared towards education and students? And this is so challenging because how can you encourage students to put exhibitions or have practical application of their learning if we are all stuck here at our houses because of the pandemic.
MAP: We have no choice talaga in the matter di ba? We have to migrate online. So for the hands-on you have mentioned usually internship yon. Bu now hindi na hands-on, online na lang. We had online exhibitions, not exhibitions, online internships and online tours. We have a pre-recorded exhibitions being lead by our head invigilator and we had a Q&A with the head invigilator. So kung ano mang tanong nila sasagutin na lang ng head invigilator. We also realized, because in the past we have community events where we invited the barangays to come in. usually, weekend kasi doon libre di ba, yung mga nanay tatay para kasama din sila. That’s why we have Sunday openings (half-day) before so they would come on that day. We also migrated online, but hindi na tour. Yung mga bata in the community they probably would like artistic projects so we work with Center for Social Action, who is our regular partner in bringing the community in, too hold a summer workshop for selected kids.
CA:But right now po it is still ongoing even with the pandemic?
MAP: We have particularly for the kinds in the community, we have training for animated films for Christmas and there were some parents who take part! So we make sure na ima-mark naming ne eto rated 13 para for guidance. Kasi not all animations naman or stories that were animated are cutesy stuff.
CA: Yes, yes. Usually, nga po serious pa eh. Madaming animation na serious yung topic.
So do you think po yung MCAD, or the College of Saint Benilde is still adjusting with the effects of the pandemic and the shift online learning.
MAP: I think everyone has adjusted. We have no choice in the matter. But again, there is a realization that not all things work online. And also that online in free on our end, but it does not also translate to everyone coming in. Also there is a lot of offerings online. So we ask what do they need and can we give them? What are our capacity or capability, or ways to provide them? And not only focusing on their need because masyadong market naman yon ah. There might be things they have not though on yet, or things they have not considered like for example that one, Summer Art workshop. Huh? Pwede kaming magwork shop!
Yon, di ba kasi kapag summer yung mga bata naglalaro laro yan, and they have not really taken part on any workshop yet that we had at MCAD until this time. Adjustment lang syempre kasi minsan mawawalan ng signal yung nasa talk mo or nasa workshop mo. So ayun lang, I think more than the technology it is more on the attitude towards your partners and your audience noh. Be patience in the same way they are patient with you. How can we help you with that? So they have a say in the program.
CA: So after two years in the pandemic, do you think po MCAD is moving to not totally a face-to-face class but in a way…
MAP: Actually, we already have online and private visit, like other museums has. Syempre we are still guided by IATF regulations. Di pwedeng marami, kung bata ang pupunta they have to be accompanied by fully vaccinated adults. For our case, 10 kids or 2-5 kids with 1 adult.
CA: To ask a question to more specific to the Summer Program. Because it’s kids you are taking about not college students. I was thinking that they are not kids who are enrolled to Benilde?
MAP: Nothing Benilde. They are kids in the community. The Center for Action works with a lot of kinds in the barangay in our area, there are a lot of kids there. Dati kasi di ba nag-community pantry ang mga tao and sabi ko. It might be some kids or some people not necessary just need the food and all, but they actually need, as I mention, essential and crucial yung art to feed the mind and the heart and the imagination.
CA: Especially now!
MAP: Oo. Kaya sasabihin naming baka nauuhaw sila sa artistic activities. Di ba? They had helped from the community pantry, they had and received help from barangay health workers but we do pop-art cards where they can do thank you cards. Just also that they can make do with their hands and imagination, and teaching them attitude in a different way. Di tulad dati ng values class. “Eto yung values!”, but you really have the art as the means for teaching, to teach them or how they learn.
CA: It so nice to hear tat MCAD actually did this. And it’s like social responsibility. MCAD is not just for exhibit and shows, not just for hosting art exhibitions.
MAP: Kasi this is really part of our plan, gaya ng sinabi mo na accessibility and inclusion. Di lang college students but rally the community that what really the school is working with.
CA: That’s so good to hear po, and more power to that kind of projects.
MAP: Just like the museums abroad they really have yung mga programs that really go into the communities. But we do not have that capacity at the moment, we don’t have that skill. So how can we do something like that? We have an office that’s already working with the communities. What we can do is to offer our services, help even in terms of making art more available, making sure that art is for all. This is one way that we can make art for all. Making art tangible.
CA: That is so interesting. I think, i-coconnect ko po ‘tong answer na to sa questions ko later. For now po, let us move po doon sa, I think nasagot nyo na rin po itong question number five. How do you want people- students, and the general public, to experience MCAD? How do you assess if students learn thru interacting with the museum especially before the pandemic?
MAP: in any case, I would like to add. MCAD is an welcoming space, it is a safe space. Kaya pwede silang pumunta doon. Kasi minsan sa una, “ay malaking building”, lalo na kung malakit building nakakaintimidate yan for a lot of people.
CA: Tsaka po ang ganda nya! I mean ang modern po ng design. Ang sosyal nya kasi pong tignan. Doon po talaga ako, may pinanggagalingan po ako.
MAP: Kapag ganoon ba, nakakaintimidate ba sa inyo?
CA: For me po ah, yes it is.
MAP: OK. I understand, since this is a school and also this is primary that we also have to look at the safety of everyone that’s why we have security and other stuff. Pero nakakaintimidate rin yon. But our security is really friendly, kaya hindi sila ma-aano. “Welcome to MCAD!” They are welcoming so they can go inside. Once they are inside they feel safe to ask question. “Ano yan?” or may comment “Ang panget!” Of course, also keeping in mind the space to move around, to see it and to explore.
CA: Usually po kasi kapag museum ang fragile eh, ang hirap gumalaw.
MAP: I understand. We do have some fragile items as well na aano rin naming na di dapat, ganito. The usual museum rules. We do understand the way you move in space, interacting with an artwork or with another person moving in that space also have an impact in your learning. If you make it a safe space and your body remembers, it’s comfortable. Learning through movement, and that’s part of the experience moving around in space. To sit down on the floor. Sometimes its very difficult. “Ah ang laki ng space!” So people are tempted to run around and of course for young people, especially teenagers. Alam mo naman yung gusto nila so how do you make it safe for them to do so. For them and the artwork.
So if they feel welcome and safe, the learning happens in that kind of space. Kasi if you do not feel welcome and safe in that space, how can you ask question, how can you speak up if you don’t have that space? So first it is to provide that space.
CA: That’s amazing it makes me more excited now to visit MCAD. Because if it is friendly for a kid, then it is friendly for everyone. It has that feeling right now in listening to you Ma’am. Unlike in usual museum, I’m not against in usual museums, but they have certain rules of course. You cannot even take photos. And to allow that kind of movement, that’s right, is also part of curating that particular space and particular audience, and it helps the learning of that particular art or art in general. It retains not just in the mind or in the eyes but also in the body which makes it more effective, and in a way pleasurable sya.
MAP: When our director, curator, and head of exhibition do the layout they imagine how people move. “Ay eto hindi, ay eto medyo difficult eto” so we will have an invigilator here or guarded, dito we will have a signage. For example “flashing light” for someone whom have epilepsy or things like that, we have to take consideration, again may mga warning na. For example, we have a lot of moving image or video, kaylangan madilim. So some people natatakot or will have difficulty. So we make sure that they will be aware so they can be safe and welcome during the exhibition.
CA: this is enlightening to me, because I also thought that going through a museum is primary visual.
MAP: Yes, it is visual but also your body, kasi just as I mentioned our head of exhibition would have exhibitions sometimes, actually most of the time serious and therefore hard. So if you make it also unwelcoming and unsafe at the beginning paano nila papasukin at pag-iisipan yung topic na yon. That’s why the exhibition design and the curatorship is important and we in education works with that to make sure the message gets across with kids. The criticality, the asking of questions and speaking up happens.
CA: It’s so nice to hear it this way in practice. I do not know why I am shocked since I think this is suppose to be the norm of learning art. But for me it is kinda new, that if I go to MCAD , I am encouraged to move. My movement is taken to account by the curator. Because, I don’t know, maybe it’s the way I have experience museums here. My experience is very visual, ano ba para syang, ang tahimik, but para kang di makagalaw masyado. You’re not allowed to take photos things like that. But hearing from you nga Ma’am that kids enjoy of course particular exhibits, it is kinda enlightening on my end din especially for someone who is studying curatorship. To think about the importance of space and how people move in that space and it is really part of the job of a curator to think that way and the experience itself. It is so nice to hear it in practice.
So in line of this can we measure po Ma’am, like, do you have specific metrics concerning audience reception of their exhibition and public programs?
MAP: yes, in the past we have survey. Kapag pumapasok sila like on site visit we ask them to answer a survey so that one way measure for the public programs. We ask them their comments, and in those comments it can open up new research areas, and if they enjoyed the turn. Of course apart from the number of people who have come to visit and of course return visits, yung bumabalik to join our talk. Of course, we have to ook at nga new metrics because on line and all that. Syempre if we are planning to do hybrid now, given the face to face, we need to have different matrix as well. So we are trying to find out other medium how they do that. Tayo kasi mostly online a lot pa rin, but other countries have opened.
CA: As someone who has a crucial role in MCAD, can you give an impression of how the general public perceives contemporary art in the Philippines? I am coming from the perspective of when I hear contemporary art it has this perception of sosyal, kinda elitist for my end. It’s a bit not accessible to the general public. In a way “art, di ba pang mayaman yan?” yan yung naririnig usually eh. And the same way we were talking, that four white corners of the museums is something that could be intimidating to people. When it’s white you do not want to put dirt on it. So I am curious to hear from someone who works for MCAD.
MAP: I am aware of that viewpoint of people, you know art, particularly contemporary art is elitist. But the students in CSB, the kids and the members of community they look at the works of contemporary artist first and foremost that of curiosity. So we have a gate along the street San Domingo street and we have a tarpaulin, okay, sige, “asaan yan ate, pwede ba kaming pumasok?” So first and foremost, they are really curious. Even the students, “what exhibitions they have now?”, they really at the place of curiosity of wanting to find out. So you want to work on that, they’re perplex for most of them it is something new.
CA: I came to realized po that you are working with communities and usually with contemporary museums their presentation is in English. Is there a language barrier?
MAP: We make our tours in Filipino, and for deaf we have an interpreter. We do have a school for deaf and applied studies in College of Saint Benilde. We do have that audience and we work with them. Of course, it is very difficult with internet and all. In the past even with our interns and invigilators we speak their language even foreign language, so in case we have visitors, we have someone speak to them in their language.
CA: I guess po, it’s like. Hooking them with curiosity is making it accessible to them.
MAP: Yeah, they already are curious nanjan na eh bibingwitin mo na lang.
CA: So in that way po we are making it a norm to the general public what contemporary art is about.
MAP: And we start them young. In the past, the pre-pandemic, yung mga estudyante kais there are two school near MCAD, pagkatapos ng klase nila, syempre sisiguraduhin mong tapos na yung klase nila. Pinapapasok lang sila only after 3 o’clock so alam mong tapos na yung class. Kasi we don’t also want to encourage cutting of classes kasi educational institution ang MCAD. So ayun pagkatapos ng klase pumunta silang museum, dala nila yung classmates nila. It can be as simple as gusto naming magpalamig or gusto naming gumamit ng banyo. And since nandito na, pwede na silang magtanong. So there are different motivations, and if you can provide for that and they can stay to explore and they will come back. We had had returning visitors and yung iba nga naghigh-school na eh.
CA: It’s actually very grassroots. I actually did not expected this. I realized its probably the position as well of the building, so you mentioned there where schools around it and communities.
MAP: Di ka pwedeng di ka mag-interact doon eh. Kasi hindi ka isolated even as part of our employees. “Punta kayong museum,” we have it as part of breaktime.
CA: I could imagine for a kid, elementary going to high school growing up, used to be growing to museums na hindi lang sya field trip and hindi lang sya special event, and it’s really part of their learning. Because I did not have that kind of environment growing up. I am just interested in arts. But I do not usually visit museum, I only visit during field trips, and have exposure when I was in college, and I just read it in book in my elementary and high school. But those kids they already have that experience and I cannot even imagine the potential it can do for them if they have that experience itself.
MAP: Ngayon lang nadisrupt talaga. They have to be accompanied by an adult. And also understanding that experience itself, pupunta lang kapag field trip and minsan mabilisan pa, na minsan hindi mo nakikita yung artwork. I also know that experience. Hindi ka nag-enjoy. Hindi ka na nakabalik, hindi ka na makakabalik kasi wala ka ng opportunity.
So we provide na meron talaga silang space and time na pumunta. So we say, for kids, especially for high school pwede kayo after MAP:30 PM kasi tapos na klase nyo. We are trying, and part of the return is to know how to do research, what effect does this have, di kami nakapagpatuloy because of this pandemic. At this time, ilan na yung bumibisita sa aming mga bata. We have special tours for them.
CA: Hopefully, po we are going back to normal, so we will see kids again and high schoolers in MCAD. And nakadikit or naka-angkla ng community yung MCAD itself. And this a bit mindblowing for me, I saw the picture of the building, gaya nga po ng sinasabi ko ang sosyal nya, high-art sya but hearing from you po, part sya ng community itself. People are really welcome on it. It destroys the mindset somehow there is an idea art gatekeep by certain people, like academic. But no this is not the case for MCAD.
MAP: That’s also because the school encourages that. In Benilde we have the inclusion and innovation trust. How else we can provide at the very least access. Di pa nga eto inclusion talaga eh, but small by small. And with help of some offices or otherwise di naming magagawa.
CA: Totoo po. So collaborative and grass rooted. Usually sometimes we hear that kind of vision that we want to be inclusive it usually just for paper or to sound nice. But no, it is really happening here at this institution. This how you do it, this is how you engage the community.
MAP: Last December 04, we worked with Reyna Sarmiento Manila with Ms. Bea Dolores to bring kids from Escolta to MCAD.
CA: I could imagine the experience for the kids. It could be life-changing.
MAP: Di ba, in the first place hindi na sila matatakot sa museums, hindi na sila matatakot tumingin ng contemporary art, yung iba kasi ay “nakakatakot di naming alam yan”
CA: It becomes a norm for them. Alright po! My last questions ko po for now is more futuristic, where do you see MCAD is going? What are the future programs of MCAD for their students and the general public? Since we are going to hybrid na as mentioned.
MAP: Part of that is preparing ourselves for the hybrid, knowing how to track, the hybrid things. Since we had to look at the strategic plan for the college, we see how we can conjunct with them. We push our goals together. We have to do a lot of research more connections with other departments of the college and offices, so we can think of another program.
CA: So right now, po you are still in the planning stage. Given the pandemic, wala naman pong nakakita na parating sya.
MAP: Yes, so we need to look on what mediums we are doing. Guidance from other institution, “how did you do this?” things like that. How to better meet the needs for the next years and requirements, and of course keeping it safe and health, primary.