Rachel Siringan: How do you define when you are an artist or when you are a curator? Ma-seseparate niyo po ba ung roles na yun?
Jaime Pacena II: Actually, meron akong gustong i-share sa iyo. Kasi, I think when I was asked by Mayumi to explain my practice, nahirapan din akong sabihin na halimbawa, pag pinag-usapan ko ung CANVAS lang, parang di siya yung kabuuan. Di lang ng practice ko, pero ung pagkatao ko. What I believe in. Yung totality of who I am. I can share to you a little bit of context.
So just to give context, para at least alam mo rin kung nasaan ako. My studio is in Maginhawa street. So basically, malapit sa may Provenciano. Lumaki ako sa UP Bliss. I think it is very important for me to understand kung bakit ako paulit-ulit dito sa UP Bliss. Kung bakit malapit sa akin yung area na’to. Tapos malapit lang din ang CANVAS, dito lang. Of course, UP Vargas Museum. Kumbaga dito lang ung kabuuan ng practice ko nandidito lang sa area na ‘to, sa Quezon City. But of course, may ginagawa sa iba’t ibang lugar. Ung CANVAS nakikipagtrabaho sa iba’t ibang organizations or sa exhibitions, events ng iba, like ung fairs.
So basically, I grew up here in UP Bliss. Isa siyang project ng dating diktador ng bansa. I grew up in this particular place and naging part siya ng paghulma sa sarili. Pabalik-balik ako dito. Kahit di na ako dito nakatira, punta pa rin ako dito. Lalo na nandito pa rin nanay ko. Even nung may anak na ako, we still go around this place.
Lumaki ako na meron talaga akong sense of sort of community na ito. This is my hometown. Wala akong probinsya eh. Dito ako lumaki during the 80s. I was 6 years old nung EDSA Revolution. Aside from that, makikita mo na lumaki ako sa tapat ng playground.
Tapos part of my formation years was yung UST. Lumaki rin ako na malaki na subject namin ay religion at values. Tapos nagturo rin ako dyan. Tapos nabasag ung konsepto na iyon lalo na nung nagtuturo na ako sa UST Fine Arts, especially when we met a lot of the fathers, mga pari na dyan din mismo nakatira. Lahat ng inquiries ko about life, nabuo sa lugar na ito. Mabagal for me ung proseso ng pag-intindi ng history ng UP Bliss at the same time, ng UST. Parang unti-unti ko lang sya inalam. Na lalo na nung tinatanong ko na sa sarili ko ung kung ano na ba talaga ang dapat kong intindihin. O yung posisyon ko. Darating ka kasi sa ganung point eh.
Nung time na nag-aaral pa kami sa UST, it was just about learning the skills. It’s all about learning the art and everything. Iyon nga yung dilemma namin. Tsaka ung difference during the time you were learning in UST, talagang skills ung tinuturo dyan. Kaya nung nag-aaral kami, nung grumadweyt kami, naririnig ko palagi na ung UST magagaling lang ang mga kamay pero di nag-iisip. And ang UP, dyan kasi lalo na ung time na yun nandyan sina Chabet. Nagtuturo. Sila ung mga nag-iisip. So napag-isip din ako. Tapos nalaman ko si Chabet, basically graduated from UST. May baliktad na nangyari kasi eh. Importante kasi ung skills at the same time ung pag-aaral ng tamang structure, pagdating sa fine arts. Pero bumaliktad eh. Mas napunta sa UP ung konsepto nung art na hindi kinakailangan painting o sculpture. Tsaka ironic din na si Chabet ung nagtuturo nun, ung graduate ng UST. So, meron kaming tanong. Bakit kaya? Bakit siya pumunta ng UP? To teach there. Siguro lalo na nung nagtuturo kami ganun yung konsepto ganun yung training sa amin. An even by the time that we are actually teachers already, and umalis din kami sa UST because of that concept. Of you know, na merong pagpipigil. Parang may ganung aspeto.
RS: Parang rigid po?
JP: Oo, parang ganun eh, at some point. Ung isa ko ring kabarkada na si Buen, before nung college. Buen Calubayan who is teaching as well, napagod din. Umalis din. May ganung aspeto. At tsaka siguro as artist, after mong matutunan ung skills, you look to other things. Ang problema ay halimbawa kapag meron ka ng,syempre may character development ka di ba? Nagkakapake ka sa mundong ginagalawan mo.
Sa UST, during the time we were learning all of the skills, parang di siya parte ng buhay, as artist. Makikita mo rin sa mga teachers namin. And even when I was teaching, I remember our Dean telling us na hindi ito ang tamang panahon to rebel on things. Edi kako kelan pa? Di rin yun yung tamang lugar din. So sabi ko, “Bat ganun?” Hindi naman yung rebel in a sense na ano, yung ibig-sabihin ko ung ginagawang pag-explore sa arts. Edi ba, sabi ko, fine arts tayo. So iba talaga.
Gusto ko lang din na maintindihan mo na bahagi rin ito kung bakit ako natuloy pumasok sa TutoK before. And I think it’s very important to understand that during the time that was 2001, 2003 to 2007 nagtuturo ako. 2005 TutoK came in UST. Late bloomer ako. Yung mga ginagawa ko especially after graduation it’s all about yung concerns ko. Concerns ko lang. Yung emosyon. Yun yung training sa akin eh.
Tapos nag-aaral ako sa UP ng masteral. Naoverwhelm rin ako kasi ibang iba ang kultura, ibang iba mula sa kinalakihan ko sa UST.I’ve been in UST since highschool. Sabi ko, iba rin. Iba yung pagtuturo, iba yung sentimyento, ung pinag-aaralan. Hindi innate yun sa akin. Naaalala ko nga nung initerview para sa masteral sa UP, ni Maam Tina Kulayko, sabi niya, Anong mga libro ang mga binabasa mo? Sabi ko, Maam di ako masyadong nagbabasa. Sabi niya, pero ano yung mga favorite mong libro? Tapos nakakatawa yung sinagot ko nun kasi. Pero di ko nasasabihin kasi baka husgahan niyo ako. Pero as in nakakatawa kasi wala siyang kinalaman sa academic. Di talaga ako mahilig magbasa, mahilig ako manood ng pelikula ano. Pero nung time na iyon nung 2003, yun yung sinagot ko pero nakapasok ako. So nakakatawa rin. So parang, “Willing ka ba sabi sa akin, willing ka bang magbasa?” Yun na lang yung sinabi sa akin. Sabi ko, oo naman po. Eh hindi kasi ako trained to do that. So sabi ko, I am trained to put the brush in the paint and put it on the canvas. And I am trained to hold the pen and then draw. So teka, I will be pushed to read a book more. Then, I will do that. O yung pag-uusisa sa mga bagay-bagay.
After ko magturo sa UST, I stopped and then teach in a multimedia art school. So noong 2003, I started teaching. Then, pumasok ung idea ng curatorial practice o ung pag-iintindi sa pag-organize ng isang exhibition mga around 2005. Although, noong grumadweyt kami sinisimulan na namin siyang gawin. Pero di ko pa alam na meron pa lang term na curator. That was year 2000. Wala namang nagtuturo sa amin nun. Kaya bilang isang teacher din, tinatry kong palaging i-impart ung mga hindi ko natutunan before, yung hindi sinabi sa akin ng teacher na meron palang ganitong paraan, may ganito palang resources, may ganito palang dapat intindihin na ibang bagay. Nung time namin, we were just actually trained to learn how to create art. Not to understand what is the whole or the totality of an artist. Nung year 2000, wala namang nagtuturo nun pero ginagawa na namin siya. Ginagawa namin, siguro innate sa artist… hindi innate sa artist magsulat pero innate sa artist mag-organisa, mag-organize ng exhibition o ng isang bagay na pare-pareho kayo ng sentimyento o kayang isang bagay na may sentiments o theme. Tapos gusto niyong ipakita iyon sa trabaho niyo. So siguro, dun nagsimula. We created Boxed before. 2005, I think. 2006. I can’t remember or even before that, I think. So, it was that was time na inuusisa namin siya. Since 2000, ang mindset namin ay sumali ng contest, painting contest. Para sali kaming painting contest, baka manalo kami, tapos baka pag nanalo kami magkaroon kami ng exhibit. Ganun yung trajectory namin. We didn’t know Chabet. Wala kaming kaalam-alam kay Chabet. Wala kaming kaalam-alam kay Sir Bobby, ng Kulay Diwa before, ibang eskwelahan kasi iyon. So walang kwenta mga teacher namin. Ang teacher namin si Ronald Ventura, na ngayon ay isang mamahaling artist. Pero hindi siya magaling na teacher. Nakakainis yung, hindi ako naiinis sa kanya, nakakainis yung panahon namin na akala namin na siya yung art. Gets mo? Parang lumalaki kami na ang mga niloloook up namin ay yung mga magagaling magpinta na higher batch namin at tsaka yung mga teacher namin, at tsaka yung mga alumni like si Alfredo Esquillo. Nakatingin kami dun sa skills. Nakatingin kami dun sa porma, pero kulang kami sa pag-intindi kung bakit ganun yung trabaho nila. Gets? Parang ganun ung kinalakihan ko or on my end. Kapag inusisa mo yung mga sinundan namin, Andres Barrioquinto. Kung kilala mo sila, ngayon, sila yung mga namamayagpag sa art market. Pero as right now, hindi ko na, hindi na nag-reresonate yung mga trabaho nila, kasi parang wala na siyang soul. Pero during that time, akala namin iyun yun. Parang Andres Barrioquinto, CJ Tanedo, Ivan Roxas, ito yung mga sinundan namin eh. And even before that, of course sina Ventura, Alfredo Esquillo. Gustong gusto namin si Alfredo Esquillo pero di namin siya kilala. Di namin alam kung paano siya mahahanap. Akala ko nga si Alfredo Esquillo, siya yung pinipinta niyang matandang yung matanda na parang. Hindi pala. Kalbo pala siya. Anyway. During that time iyon, noh. Hindi kami ganun ka-exposed. Siguro kung babalik ako ng college, yun yung babaguhin ko sa experience ko. Pero iyon na nga, may pag-uusisa na. So, hindi siya natapos. So, nag-oorganisa kami, gumagawa kami, we then proposed to a lot of galleries.
I proposed to CCP that time. Si Sir Cid pa yun. Tinanggap niya ung proposal for a group show. So, I started a group exhibition before called Boxed. Hindi namin iniisip na pag-cucurate na pala iyon. Ang inisip lang namin, gusto namin gumawa ng isang mas malaking exhibition, dahil gusto namin pagsama-samahin yung mga artist na hindi namin kilala, at the same time kilala namin. Pero ang dami naming nagather that time. Ang dami as in, kasi parang its by word-of-mouth lang. Yung nga eh, napaka-raw, napakadali nung time na iyon. Tapos kakausapin mo lang yung isang kaibigan mo tapos sasabihin niya invite mo ‘to, invite mo rin ‘to. Tapos magugulat na lang ako pag binalikan ko yung list. Kasi hindi ko lahat kilala eh. Nandudoon sina Pam Yan Santos, John Santos, so it was that time that it was so organic noh. But the idea is we don’t know what we are doing yet. During that time. So siguro yun yung advantage nun. Di mo alam pero napaka-raw lang, so napaka-gaan lang gawin. Ngayon kasi parang ang hirap na ng pag-nenegotiate tsaka pakikipag-usap sa mga artist. Iba na rin. Even kaibigan ko, hindi ko siya maaaya for any of our CANVAS shows, dahil hindi yun yung sentimyento niya. So, ganun kami nagsimula.
And then 2005, I encountered TutoK. That was Jose Tence Ruiz, Ma’am Karen Flores, Noel Cuizon, Manny Garibay. And they, of course, if you know them, they are part of the group before. Si Sir Boggy was part of Abay, and then sila Sir Mark Justiniani, tsaka sila Sir Manny Garibay was part of Salingpusa. So, they are the Social Realists. Ako masasabi ko na sila ung nag-introduce sa akin to really open up my eyes more. So yun, naging part ako ng group. And during that time, I was already creating music videos. I was already teaching in UST. And na tinuturo ko is technically mas yung technical aspect of video production. Tsaka photography. Hindi yung art side more of the technical side. I started teaching in UST. Tapos kasabay yun na nakilala namin sila. So palagi kaming nagsasama-sama that time and I learned a lot from them. I learned a lot of the idea of being a curator from them. Pero hindi pa rin namin siya ganun ka-grasp during that time. 2005 yun. And continuous yun, 2005 hanggang mga 2009, I think 2010. TutoK the group was very active. Kaya rin nung time na nabuo ang CANVAS, nung time na nag-usap kami nila Sir Gigo about being part of it, malapit sa akin yung konsepto. And then, 2008, teach in APC Multimedia Arts. Since 2001, I work as a video director.
So, it’s a very complex thing that I do a lot of different things. But nakikita kong hindi siya hiwa-hiwalay for me. Kapag humaharap ako sa paggawa ng video, it’s still the idea of putting together the elements. Negotiating with a lot of different people, talking to a lot of different people, practices, different practices. Negotiating with whether artista o crew o kung ano man. You’re putting together one project or one show. It’s the same thing as curatorial practice. Haharap ka sa cliente. Ihaharap mo sa audience. It’s the same thing. Wala nga lang statement. Wala lang kailangang statement. Dito ko rin nababalanse yung idea na minsan may mga bagay na kailangang i-explain, may mga bagay din na hindi kailangang i-explain. May malalalim na bagay, merong di malalalim na bagay. Natanggap ko sa sarili ko yon. Lalo na nung time na after kong grumadweyt, mag-aart ako, tapos haharap ako sa ganitong project. So nasanay akong mag-shift from that. Pero hindi siya shifting na parang dalawang persona ako. Iisa pa rin eh. Everytime na haharap ako sa ganitong practice or magpapaint ako or mag-iisip ng isang curatorial work or halimbawa, iisip kami for CANVAS, it’s the same me. So, I think it’s all about trying to understand how to, you know, put together all of these elements.
Siguro nakatulong sa akin yung idea na nag-graduate ako ng advertising arts. They taught me how to do a lot of different things. Hindi lang ung technical aspect but to handle different scenarios: Ok meron kang painting na nasa harap mo, magpinta ka. Meron kang advertising brief at kailangan mong pag-isipan ng konsepto, mag-isip ka. Meron kang mga kailangang taong kailangang kausapin, kausapin mo. Meron kang mga espasyong kailangang pag-isipan kung paano mo gagamitin, gamitin mo. It’s the same. Ganun ako nasanay. Siguro din kaya sinabi ko sa’yo kung saan ako nanggaling at kung anong edad ako, nung time namin, nasa analog days kami. Lumaki ako na walang internet. Ang TV para ilipat mo, lalapit ka tapos i-swiswitch mo nang ganun. Ang radio, the same thing. Walang mobile phone. It’s the idea of trying to understand each element. Parang lumaki na gusto kong inuusisa o binubusisi yung mga hindi ko alam. Analog days. Parang may nakita kang kotse na umaandar. Bat kaya umaandar ‘to? Bubutingtingin namin. Ganun ako nung bata. So, ung radyo, pipilipitin mo. Bat kaya ‘to umaandar? San kaya nanggagaling ung tunog? So, it was that time, it was that age. Tapos biglang nagkaroon ng digital age. So nung pagtawid na sa digital age, mas lalong naging curious, I think. So siguro ung pag-jujump ko to different ano, it was innate to me because I grew up in that particular era, time na innate sa aking yung jumping to one and ano. And dahil nga tumawid ako rin to digital, it’s the same thing. Yun yung naging proseso ko. 2012, I started a collective called BM Lab. So aside from teaching, aside from painting, I created this group. I created an opportunity for my students to basically, makapag-work with other creatives.
RS: So, you try to still use who you are and kung ano ung alam niyo. And then, apply it to what’s given to you. Something like that?
JP: Oo. Kasi parang ngayon, the younger ones, I hear them: “You have to focus on just one. You have to focus on this one.” So, di ko alam kung tama bang sabihin ko na: “Hindi. Hindi naman kailangan.” Pero hindi ko naman ginagawa iyon. Kasi nga, ako, this is me. I cannot tell, even my student, apprentice and interns na iba ang ano ko sa kanila, it’s not to do the same thing that I do. But ang ginagawa ko sa kanila is for them to understand that I do a lot of different things because I see it na iisa lang. So siguro kaya rin nabuo rin before ung multimedia arts school, hindi siya tipong segregated na fine arts ka, film ka, ganito ka, because of the people who grew up like me. Kasi kami naman, yung edad namin yung nag-imbento nun. Mga ka-edad ko or yung mas bata sa akin ng onti o medyo matanda sa akin ng onti yung mga nag-imbento ng mga telepono. Yung function ng Facebook ngayon. It’s everything like that. Yung pag-uusisa.
In 2012, I started a group called BM Lab. The idea was to involve the students and create opportunities for students para makatrabaho ung ibang practitioners. Katulad, halimbawa, sinimulan namin ito kay Mark Salvatus. When he was awarded in Ateneo Arts Awards, nung pagbalik niya, he needed a support group. So sabi ko, “Ok tutulungan ka namin.” Yung support group na iyon, technical support group. Yung gagawa nung project niya. Kaya ko ginawa ung BM Lab because babalik ako nung years before 2012. During the time na kasama ako sa TutoK, Ma’am Karen Flores pushed us to propose to UP Vargas Museum. It was a proposal for a curatorial development program. Siguro nakita niya sa amin, lima kami eh. Ako, si Buen Calubayan, Wesley Valenzuela, Don Salubayba (rest in peace), si Jeff Carnay. So kaming lima at tsaka ung iba pa. Although kami lang yung pinush nila to really submit something. We submitted a proposal for a curatorial project. During that time, wala akong ka-ideideya pero nagsulat ako. Sabi niya lang naman sa amin, mag-isip kayo ng gusto niyong project tapos isulat niyo kung ano yung detalye niya na gusto mong ilatag doon. Tapos, ipropose mo sa curatorial development program. Once na makapasok ka, pag-uusapan yung proposal mo and they will critique it. And then, dadaan ka sa pag-critique ng proposal. And sasabihin sa iyo kung ano yung pwedeng baguhin, yung mali, o yung ok, yung problematic, o effective dun sa proposal. So, during that time, nakapasok kami. Nakapasok kaming lima. Ako nga nagsubmit pa ako ng late kasi may exhibit ako before the deadline. So nung nag-submit ako, nakiusap ako na sana tanggapin nila, ng UP Vargas Museum. Tinanggap naman. So nakapasok. So, 2 days yon. Yun yung unang-una kong curatorial development program. Very extensive siya. Ang dami kong natutunan dun. 2009 ‘to.
During that time, ang sinasabi nila, tatlo yun eh: “Hindi yan curatorial project, research project yan.” “Hindi yan curatorial project, artistic project yan.” Tapos “parang boundaring yan to curatorial project or something.” Pero malinaw na sa amin iyon. Ang panelist nun was Yeye (Joselina) Cruz, Ma’am Sandra Palomar, Ma’am Eileen. Tapos, moderator si Sir Patrick. Tapos gulung-gulo ako nun. Sabi ko, ano kaya yun? Yun pala, parang very ano sa kanila na hindi yan curatorial project kasi it’s an artistic project. Meaning iniisip mo yan para sa sarili mong exhibit. Parang ganun. Hindi yan curatorial project kasi research project yan. Walang concrete na gustong mangyari. 2010. Kung iisipin mo ngayon, fast forward after ten years, wala nang boundary. Wala nang boundary yung research artistic, at curatorial practice. Wala na. Feeling ko. Parang it was very clear that time. Even kina Yeye. Si Miss Yeye yung unang unang magtataas ng kamay palagi. So kinakabahan na kami kasi babarilin niya talaga lahat. Ilan ba kami lahat, 12 o 10. Nandun yata si Ricky Francisco. Di ko na maalala. Hindi ko pa kilala yung mga tao nun eh. Sinasabi ko sa sarili ko, bata pa ako. 2009 nagpropose kami tapos natanggap kami for the workshop. Tapos si Sandra Palomar, sabi sa akin, sa sobrang simple ng pagkakasulat mo, naintindihan namin agad. Sobrang swerte ko lang. Kasi again, di nga ako magaling magsulat. Marami kasi sa amin gumamit ng sobrang highfalutin words. Doon sila criniticize. Parang, “Ano ibig-sabihin mo sa word na yan? Bat nilalagay mo dyan?” So may ganung factor. Parang sa’kin, sa sobrang simple lang, naintindihan nila. And even Yeye Cruz during that time told me na, yun yung curatorial project na hinahanap nila. So nung sinabi niya yun, naguguluhan pa rin ako. Sabi ko, hindi ko pa rin naiinitindihan. So, it was a learning stage for me. Tapos sobrang fortunate because di nila sinabi na pipili pala sila ng isang participant out of all of us para ipadala sa Japan to learn more. That changed my life. Parang may ibang akong nakitang mundo after that. It was something very special to my practice as an artist at tumawid sa idea ng pag-cucurate. Hindi dahil na sinabi ko na curator ako. Hindi ko sinabi iyon sa sarili ko eh. Up to this time, I think of myself as an artist pero as a creator. Oo, artist ka pero at the same time, producer ka. Technically you create something. Kung ano man ang crinecreate mo, it can be an object, it can be an opportunity, it can be a performance, it can be anything. You organize. Doon ko natutunan.
Pumunta akong Japan nung 2010. Three months yun. And since 2010, I’ve been going back and forth to Japan. Sa ibang purpose na. So, yun just to give you context. 2012, I created BM Lab because I learned in Japan that there are artists in Thailand who actually create works for other artists. Meaning yung sa ibang artists, ideas lang yung binibigay nila. Pero yung grupo na ito, basically, are the ones who create that. Sabi ko, “Ay, gusto kong gumawa ng grupong ganun. Pero gusto ko, hindi objects. Gusto ko videos.” Gusto ko technical supervision dun sa artist to create video projects. Because 2012, ilan lang naman eh. Konting-konti pa lang ung nag-dedelve into video. Tapos sinubukan ni Mark. Sabi ko, “Sige. Mark. We will help you. Para ma-introduce ko rin sa’yo ung mga interns ko.” Para ung mga interns mismo ung mag-proporblem solve dun sa technical aspect. So again, that’s part of me being a curator. That’s part of me being a director. It’s all about creating opportunities and negotiating with people and putting people together. Parang binubuo mo siya eh.
And then, 2014, I joined CANVAS. Kung mapapansin mo, di ako tumigil magturo. Tapos 2014, kasi may anak na ako nun. So, during that time, CANVAS asked me, Sir Gigo Alampay asked me to join CANVAS. Hindi ako nag-hesitate na mag-join. Because of the idea na, one, I’m already a father, and two, teacher ako. Tapos three, gusto ko ung isang aspeto ng CANVAS, which is not just about the children, but also about human rights. Nung nawala ung TutoK, CANVAS ung naging daan ko to create more ideas or dialogues about the sentiments na pinaniniwalaan ko.
So, I have been with CANVAS since 2014. But before 2014, parte na ako ng ibang projects ng CANVAS as a freelance curator. So, iniinvite nila ako to curate projects for them. Tapos, dun nagsimula ung relationship namin ng CANVAS, ni Sir Gigo. Nung time ng pagcucurate nung ano na yun, it’s more of trying to understand kung ano ung need ng idea. Lalo na halimbawa, kasi uso pa rin sa CANVAS, uso pa rin sa ibang galleries, na magkakaroon ng group show. Tapos usually may theme tapos magsusubmit siguro mga 80 artists. So naging daan sa akin yung pagiging curator/graphic designer/artist to understand paano nga ba dapat buuin itong 80 artworks na ito into one particular space. Ako ang take ko dun, parang katulad lang din kapag naglalay-out ka ng magazine. O parang pag-ipapakita mo ito sa isang video, ano ba ung magiging narrative nito. Paano ba ung kwento nito. Ano yung unang makikita ng tao? Tapos ano yung susunod? At bakit sila magkasunod. So, it’s all about storytelling. Kahit hindi ko na trabaho yun, it’s all about layouting the particular piece like a magazine, like a book, like a film. Again, when I say di lang akong nag-jujump into one practice into another because I see everything I do connected. Pare-pareho lang naman. Parang kapag humarap ako sa isang exhibition space, it’s the same thing kapag humarap ako sa photoshop o illustrator na blanko pa. Lahat ng elements niya kailangan kong i-lay out are the same thing. Iintindihin mo kung ano shape nito, kung anong form, kung anong sinasabi nito. Same thing with video editing. Same thing with talking with different people. It’s the same thing. So yun yung kabuuan ng isang tanong mo at kung paano ako naging curator. Haba. Salamat sa pakikinig.
RS: Ang dami niyo pong points na nakakiliti sa akin. Kasi may mga na-encounter rin po ako na mga readings namin na parang sinasabi nung isang artist na, being an artist and being a curator, it’s different for them. Separate sila. Na there are times na nag-coconflict pa daw sila. And with how you shared your experience and your practice, iba naman po yung natutunan ko. Meron din namang mga curators na looking at other roles as one, in a way. O parang, it’s still the same.
JP: O kasi, baliw ka nun kung hindi. Parang feeling ko, hindi mo rin gagawin yung isang bagay kung pakiramdam mo na hindi siya totoo para sa iyo. If it’s not true for you, bakit mo siya gagawin? Syempre iba-iba rin. Siguro yung iba, for example, now I see some curators trying to paint. It’s ok. Yung iba sasabihin nila, “Ano ba yan.” Eh, bakit? It’s the same thing as reading a book. It’s like picking up a book and then reading it. Ganun talaga eh. Meron siyang gustong ihayag in a form. It’s the same thing. Maybe different ung approach niya sa pagpipinta. Pero it’s still that process of creating. Or even choosing a dress, choosing clothes that you would like to wear. It’s the same thing, I think. So yung unang tanong mo, una palang noh. The transition from art to ano. I think yun yung kabuuan ng kwento ko. Key points dun is that before ako naging part ng CANVAS, the one that honed me and made me aware of the society that I belong to, is TutoK. The one that grounded me in understanding more about the practice is being a teacher din. Pati yung pag-uusisa ko sa mga bagay-bagay. I think nasa edad ko. And at the same time, nandodoon sa kung saan ako galing na eskwelahan. Tapos nung nag-aral ako sa UP ng masters. And yun yung nagbago sa akin. Yun yung nagturo sa akin na mas lalo pang usisain ung mga bagay-bagay na hindi ko naiintindihan dati. Mabagal ung naging proseso ko pero ok lang. Feeling ko, ok lang naman. Marami ring nagsasabi na you do a lot of different things. Sabi ko, tamad ka lang initindihin yung pagkatao ko. I think for me at this stage of my life, hindi ako apologetic about it. I shouldn’t be. Yun din yung sinasabi ko sa ibang young artists. Ok lang siya. I mean, nagbabago nga ung mundo. May NFT world na nga eh. May Metaverse na nga eh. We evolve. If I need to carry it all, sa akin, ako lang naman ung mahihirapan. Ok lang yun. Ako lang naman eh.
RS: Naisip ko lang din po na, kayo po ba personally, you see you, being a teacher similar to you, being a curator?
JP: Right now, for example, of course, being a curator is caring. Si Sir Boggy yun yung palaging pinapaalala sa amin eh. It’s really about the idea of you taking care of the idea, the artists. Not in the sense na aalagaan mo siya. Yung konsepto, yung kailangang ipakita. Kung ano mang kailangang ipakita na idea. Parang parte siya ng trabaho ng isang teacher, to also care for the things you teach or say. Depende rin sa kailangan, lalo na nung nagbago, nung nag-shift nga ngayong online practice. May ibang pag-aalaga na kailangang gawin. It’s not just about the idea of them or the students trying to accomplish the requirements. Hindi na siya ganun lang. Tapos yung kabuuan, yung tinatry ko ngayon sa APC. I’ve been teaching there since 2008. Sabi ko nga parang, yung estudyante, alam niya yung kabuuan. Yung bigger picture. Kasi most of the time, as a student, especially nung ako, yung iniisip ko, I see one subject as one subject. I don’t see the totality of everything. Parang one at a time. One term at a time. One subject at a time. One requirement at a time. Tapos na lolost ako sa bigger picture. Kaya nung grumadweyt, most of the time, ang isang graduate, confused. Anong gagawin ko? Kasi hindi niya nakita yung bigger picture, lalo na kung puro technical. So yun yung tinatry namin ayusin at gawin. Lalo na nung nagkaroon ng online practice. Because ang dami rin talaga na mentally and emotionally affected with all of these things happening. Lalo na walang ibang pupuntahan yung estudyante kung di yung loob ng bahay. Eh kung dati may problema ka sa loob ng bahay, meron kang eskwelahan para takbuhan. Eh, ngayon wala. O kung pagod ka sa eskwela, makakauwi ka ng bahay. Eh kaso ngayon, iisa lang yun eh. If they don’t see the bigger picture of the things that they do, then, kakainin talaga sila. So, yun yung tinitingnan namin. So, feeling ko, it’s part of it.
So ayun, based dun sa tanong mo, yes, at the same time, of course, may limit. Base sa practice na pinagdaanan ko, kailangan kong gawin siya as parang katulad ng pag-cucurate ko o paggawa ko ng isang advertising video o isng bagay na kailangan kong makipag-coordinate sa iba’t ibang tao. Kasi may kailangan akong pakinggan na iba’t ibang tao. May kailangan akong intindihin na iba’t ibang tao. Pag nagtuturo ka di ba, hindi mo kasi pwedeng sabihin na ito lang ung kailangan niyo gawin tapos matuto ka na. Hindi, kasi bawat estudyante may ibang klaseng pag-intindi. Magugulat ka na lang minsan. Ganun talaga. Minsan may magtatanong, tapos sasabihin ko, “Huh? Di ba nasabi ko na yun?” Pero iba yung pagkakaintindi. Minsan ganun. Tapos iba’t ibang paraan din. Iba yung mga resources ng mga tao. So different negotiations with different people, parte siya ng pagtuturo. Kasi dati nung una, lahat kayo privileged kayo kasi nakakapag-aral kayo. Pero di ko alam yung kwento nila. Ngayon mas naging aware ako dun sa lalong intindihin yun. Oo nga pala, tao ‘tong mga ito. Gumagalaw, buhay. Di ko silang pwedeng tratuhin na just clients. May ganung aspeto dati sa UST. Naaalala ko yun na nagulat ako nung sinabi sa amin lahat yun. Lahat kaming mga teacher na nasa malaking-malaking auditorium. Tapos yung statement nila nun, 2006 ata o 2007. Ang mga students are our clients. Tas sabi ko, “Huh? What do you mean clients?” Di ko gets eh. Parang you have to serve them. Kumbaga parang “the customer is always right.” And at the same time, you give them just what they need. Yun lang yung kailangan nila. Yun lang yung ilatag mo sa kanila. Ok. So may ganung platform before. Yung education being a business. Hanggang ngayon ganun naman siya. Kaya nga nagkaroon ng iba-iba ano ung ibang institutions. Kailangan siyang ibalik sa idea na you have to care for them. I’m pretty sure lahat naman ng teacher may pag-unawa tsaka they care for their students. Pero yung sistema kasi na ginagalawan. Sometimes you really have to put more effort in caring. Lalo na may kakilala akong mga nagtuturo sa UP before na 6 months na di pa sumesweldo. You have to really care for your students. To really understand na beyond na ito sa trabaho ko. It’s really about sharing this particular ano. Minsan nag-eextend pa sa Sunday, on madaling araw. Minsan ganun eh. Tas ay nakita nila gising pa ako. Sige na nga. So minsan, may ganung factor. Minsan naman pag-tinopak, “Pwedeng bukas na? Kasi gabi na.”
RS: Siguro pwede na po tayong mag-move dun sa curating for children’s exhibition. Yung gusto ko pong tanungin ay, “How do you define curating for children?” or “What is curating for children?”
JP: Sa CANVAS, malinaw na when we say children hindi namin dinadownplay yung konsepto na dapat walang dugo, walang ganito or something. Of course, wala namang dugo. Pero ang idea is cautious pa rin kami. But we don’t want to treat children na parang hindi nila makukuha ung isang kumplikadong bagay. In our case, in CANVAS, what we do is we start with a lot of ideas and we create our own programming. Hindi naman lahat ng ginagawa namin ay para sa bata lang. Pakita ko sa iyo tong. Para maintindihan mo.
Ito yung CANVAS, Center for Arts, New Ventures, and Sustainable Development. One of the main programs of CANVAS is to create books. And these particular books, iyang mga books na iyan pinamimigay namin sa mga disadvantaged communities. When we say we create projects and curate projects for kids, it’s not just about creating an exhibition. It’s creating a material as well. Nag-start siya sa idea ni Sir Gigo nung sinimulan niya yung CANVAS. Especially ‘tong Earth Tales na hindi naman mula sa amin yung kwento. But the idea is we would like to negotiate with artists who are doing works that are leaning towards the narrative, creating their own narrative, or can create stories. Ung merong storytelling component dun sa trabaho nila. Because we would like to talk to children. How do we want to communicate with children? Is through images and through stories. How do we create projects or how do we curate for children? We think of materials na pwedeng makipag-usap sa kanila. That’s one. So, basically, we create a lot of different books. CANVAS makes a lot of books. Pwede mo i-check CANVAS.ph. Nagsisimula siya sa pag-invite ni Sir Gigo. Dati pa niyang ginawa. Na tipong mag-iinvite ng isang artist. And then, that particular artist will create a painting. That painting will be offered to the public. Para yung public can actually create stories from that.
RS: Yung Romeo Forbes po?
JP: Yung Romeo Forbes. Tapos yun kapag nakagawa na sila ng kwento, pipili ng isa. Tapos yung isang story na yun babalik dun sa artist para bubuuin niya na yung buong libro. And then, we create the book. And then, the book is basically given to the children. Given to the children meaning we are inviting a lot of different partners or organizations to ask for books. Para sila yung mamimigay. Nationwide yun. Si VP Leni namigay na rin ng libro namin. So basically, ganun yung cycle niya. It’s been like that for several years already. And we created a lot of different books already. Paano nagsisimula yung idea ng book? So minsan, nagbrabrainstorm kami. What are the things we would like to do? So, at some point, hindi na siya naging part ng Romeo Forbes na process. Minsan deretso na kaming nakikipag-collaborate with artists and designers. So, nung time na nag-iisip kami ng iba pang baterya, sabi namin: “Sige, anu-ano ba yung gusto nating gawan ng libro?” It’s not just about creating a book lang. It’s all about ano ba yung gusto nating sabihin sa bata. One, gumawa kami ng alphabet book na human rights alphabet book yung Weight of Words. Ang inquiry kasi namin, paano mo nga ba sasabihin yung human rights sa mas bata? Paano natin sasabihin ung isang kumplikadong bagay sa mas bata? So, these are the things we initiate. Ganito kami mag-isip sa CANVAS. Ganito kami magtrabaho. Tapos may isa pa kaming book, Silent Witnesses. Yung mga Martial Law victims. So how can we communicate that to the children? Create a material that basically explain to them about the harshness o yung mga nangyari during the time ng Martial Law. So, yun yung nabuo. Minsan merong idea then we think of artists na naiisip namin na possible na mag-rereflect dun sa trabaho niya o dun sa idea para matranslate yun into a painting. Para yung mga painting yung gagawing libro o images. To curate for children, we start by not treating them as children. Also, not treating them as adults. But the idea is we would like to communicate with them. Paano ba natin ito kakausapin? Paano ba natin gagawin tong mas maging interesante para sa mga bata? And at the same time, ma-instill natin yung ideas na complicated na ito na at some point maiintindihan nila. Or at some point, mas magiging interesado sila. For the past several months and ever since nung pandemic, hindi kami tumigil. So dati, yan, Romeo Forbes. Pero after that most recently we created a lot of different things that we would like to really communicate with the children and engage with them. We created several activity books. Pag may opportunity, isip ng paraan. O kaya ano yung pwede nating gawin dito? Nagkaroon ng isang opportunity that we collaborated with Ang INK. Ang idea is to create a book about children’s rights. Tapos di lang siya libro, interactive siya, meaning pwede nilang kalikutin. Pwede nilang laruin. So, it’s all about the idea na to curate a project or something for the children, na geared towards the children. Ang unang-una ano namin, ano ba yung gusto naming ikwento o pag-usapan namin with the children? So yun yung main point.
And then, three years ago, we started the idea of Tumba-tumba Museum. Nagkaroon ng lupa ang CANVAS sa Batangas. And from there, we thought of creating an opportunity. Dito na natin siya buuin. Lahat ng gusto nating gawin para sa bata. Dito na natin siya buuin. Dito na natin siya gawin. Pero syempre espasyo pa lang yun. Parang 2,000 hectares na land yun eh. Ang napag-usapan namin ni Sir Gigo is that every time mag-exhibit tayo sa kung saan man let’s make that as a proof of concept of what kind of museum we want to be. And Sir Gigo, our executive director is very visionary. He’s really very active sa buong proseso namin. He is the brains of a lot of different things that we do. So sabi nga niya, “Let’s do this proof of concept.” A proof of concept in how we would like to engage with the kids. So, dun namin sinimulan sa Vargas Museum. We tried to create exhibitions. We try to create different opportunities na makakausap namin yung mga bata. At maeenganyo sila sa pagtingin ng art and at the same time hindi sila maintimidate. Yung yung gusto naming mangyari. Nung nag-talk kami before, nung time na yun we would like to create a space for the children na parang Studio Ghibli. Yun yung isang ideas and a lot more ideas. Nung nag-uusap kami ni Sir Gigo, “Paano mo nga ba gusto kausapin ung mga bata?” We start by talking about of course, yung sarili nila. Sarili muna and then pagkatapos nun yung mundong ginagalawan nila. So tao, mundo yun. Saka na nila maiintindihan yung society na kinabibilangan nila. Paunti-unti. Sa sarili tapos palabas. Tapos yung mundo, in a general sense, kasama na dun yung mga bagay-bagay na kailangang initindihin sa mundo. Pagkatapos nun magegets mo na, “Ah, ok pag pinagsama mo pala yung tao at mundo, ito na yung mas malalim na pag-intindi sa society na kinabibilangan natin. So papasok na yung human rights, papasok na yung imagination. So, that was the thing that we were thinking of for that particular proof of concept for the museum. One idea is to really create what we would like to communicate with the children. And we don’t treat children as someone na hindi maiinitindihan ung sasabihin namin. Siguro dahil, number one, si Sir Gigo, tatay din. Very hands on siya sa mga anak niya. I think he understands how to communicate with children. Yun din yung naging reference ko. Gusto ko yung anak ko maiinitindihan niya ung pinag-uusapan namin. Yung mga complex na bagay, I still talk to him about it. Kapag sinasabi ko sa kanya ung about his emotions. Kailangan maintindihan niya yun eh. Kahit hindi pa niya naiinitindihan fully, kailangan naririnig niya yun. Kailangan napag-uusapan. Yun yung paraan namin sa CANVAS.
RS: Sa mismo pong mga cinucurate niyo…For example po nabisita ko po ung Stories and Spaces. Tapos naalaala ko po ung boxes po dun sa Safe Internet. Yung parang tumitingin po ako sa loob tapos nandun po ung information. With regards po dun sa mga ganung types or yung sa interactivity, meron po ba kayong mga elements or sensory experience na you’re trying to make more of to have an effective storytelling for children?
JP: Actually, before pa ung Stories and Spaces, meron kaming unang-una. Ito yung kay Jojo Barja yung Children’s Stories, yung Cat Library. Yung proof of concept naming, we would really like to extend the experience to the children. Yung hindi lang pagtingin. Hindi lang pagtingin sa artwork, kung hindi yung mismong pag-experience dun sa space kung saan nilagay yung artworks. Hindi siya buo na yung painting lang yung titingnan mo. They also need to play with stories na nandudoon. They also need to draw or create. Yung artwork nasa table, yung sculpture. Natatakot pa nga sina Sir Patrick nun. Sabi ko, nung tinanong ko naman si Jojo Barja sabi niya ok lang. But of course, mayroon kaming taga-bantay. But the idea is, hindi namin masyadong inilalayo yung artworks. They need to touch it at some point. They need to look at it. They need to draw it. Usisain nila. Nandudoon yung coloring ano. Nandudoon yung effort to try to create more opportunities for the kids to engage with the exhibition. Not just by looking at the work. Nandudoon din yung libro. Pati yung sa Cat Library, yung mga may pusa kay Jared Yokte. Sabi ko ilagay natin dito. Pwede nilang hawakan. We would like rin na ung opportunity ng pag-engage, alam ng artist. Para alam din nila kung paano nilagagawin yung exhibition. Tapos yung nasa third floor nun, si Arvie. She asked the viewer to fold origami. Nandudoon yung pagsubok na paano ba natin gagawin pa, itong pag-eengage sa mas batang audience. To really let them touch, let them feel, let them look intently. We did several pockets ng interactive works there. Kinausap namin si Pam Yan-Santos, baka sana ung trabaho niya can be touched. Yung memory game. May mga ganung aspeto. Tapos sabi ko at some point kailangan nilang umupo, magbabasa lang sila. At some point, kailangan lang nila manood. It’s really all about trying to understand how the children or particular viewer, whether bata o hindi, paano nga sila makikipag-engage with the exhibition space. Of course, may limitation din. Minsan ang enggrande ng naiisip pero pagdating sa actual, syempre may mga negotiations. Syempre may budget concern. Lalo na it’s something that we do often. Di pwedeng mag-all out sa isa, kasi mauubusan ka naman ng resources. Parang may mga alam akong dating pelikula, binuhos nila lahat doon sa isang pelikula. Pagkatapos nun nag-bankrupt sila tapos wala na. Wala na yung grupo. So parang ganun din. Pockets and pockets. The idea is we document it and we try to understand paano nga ba yung susunod. O ano ba yung goal natin on this. Pero hindi rin dun nagsimula yun eh. Nagsimula ito nung may isa kaming project.
We went to Coron. Ako, yung isang kasama namin, si Annette, one writer, artist Sergio Bumatay, yung art director namin, at tsaka yung creative director namin during that time, sumalangit nawa, si Dan. Nagpunta kaming Coron, isang team kami. Tapos nag-interview kami ng mga Tagbanwa. Tapos si Randy at tsaka si Annette, nagsulat sila. Si Serg yung artist. Tapos kami nagdocument kami ni Kevin. And at the same time ako, nakipag-usap lang ako kay Serg. Basically, I was there to somehow curate the idea. Basta may kausap lang sila. Tsaka at the same time yung makakaintindi para ma-relate kay Sir Gigo. Nung nabuo namin iyon, ininvite namin si Sergio Bumatay to create an experience dun sa CANVAS gallery. Dito sa Zuzuareggi. So trinansform niya yung buong lugar into parang underwater. Sabi namin sa kanya, “Ito yung buong espasyo. Tell us kung paano mo gustong baguhin ‘tong espasyo. Kailangan, isa siyang experience.” Parang pagpasok mo dito sa loob, hindi siya yung gallery yung nakikita. Parang siyang isang buong artwork. So, yun yung idea. Dun nagsimula. So, when we went to Vargas, we tried to do that as well. Ininvite namin yung artist to think about. Kaso, yun nga may limitation. Minsan di rin grasp lahat ng artist yung gustong mangyari ng curatorial team. So, we create that experience for the artist. Like for example, yung Children’s Stories, hindi is Jojo nakialam dun. He allowed us to, “Ok, ok yan.” So ako na yun. Parte na rin ng trabaho ko ung pagdesign nung exhibit. Hands-on kasi ako dun. Hands on ako dun sa kung anong height, kung paano yung vista, ano yung layo. Very particular ako dun. Siguro dahil yun din yung kapag nasa shoot ako, ayokong nakakalat dito yung gamit. Gusto ko ung ilaw dito nakalagay. Same thing with that. Pagpumasok yung tao, gusto ko ano yung unang makikita, paano ma-experience. Just like a designer. Parang sa magazine. Nandito yung text. Pag binasa mo, pupunta ka rito. Same thing with the space. Minsan ok sige, hindi siya (artist) makikialam sa espasyo. So, it’s my role to do that for the space. Dun sa Stories and Spaces, we allowed Studio Dialogo, sila Liza Flores, at tsaka yung Rubber Tree to curate that particular space. Pero yung pag-curate nila, base pa rin sa consultation with us. Nung time na pinakita nila yung layout nila, as the curator ng CANVAS, sinabi ko sa kanila na sana ganito, masyadong ganito. And they considered that. Kaya naging ganun yung layout nung loob. Iba pa yun nung una eh. Hindi pa nga yun centralized na yung mga box nasa loob lang ng iisa lang. So kalat-kalat pa siya. Sabi ko, lalo na pandemic, iwasan natin na may kailangang hawakan just in case, during that time, pwede ang bata. Pero wala. Walang nakakitang bata.
Di ko nga nadala anak ko eh. Kasi parang natatakot din ako para kina Leah, baka sila yung mapagalitan. Parang may biglang sumulpot na bata sa CCTV or something. So sabi ko, “Sige Leah wag na.” Di ko na pinilit dalhin yung anak ko. Pero most of the time, yung anak ko yung taga-check. Dadalhin ko siya dun. Halimbawa dinala ko siya dun dati. So dinala ko siya sa exhibition, sinabi ko sa kanya kung ano yung mga ano. Tapos titingnan niya kung ano yun. So nakikita ko rin sa kanya kung paano niya ineexperience yung space. As in deretso ko nakikita sa kanya and how he appreciates that. Minsan may kulang, may bitin. So yun yung tinatry naming initindihin. We’re not yet there na tipong masasabi namin na, “Ok na-master na namin ‘to.” Hindi. We’re always thinking of ways with how to communicate with the children. And how to communicate ideas we believe in. Ung pag-intindi namin sa bata, nag-ano na rin siya dun sa pag-intindi sa mga kinakausap naming artists, on who are the artists we would like to engage with or collaborate with. So, nag-create kami ng isang pang platform, which is the Marahuyo Art Projects.
Technically, CANVAS is a non-profit organization. Tumba-Tumba is the proof of concept, children’s museum. It’s one of the programming of CANVAS. One Million Books is one of the programming of CANVAS. Marahuyo is a separate entity. Pero kami-kami rin yun. Mas yun yung profitable. To create opportunities for partnerships for CANVAS. So, ang ginawa namin sa Marahuyo, napakinggan ako dito ni Sir Gigo, sabi ko, “I would like to talk more to the younger generation of artists.” Kasi teacher ako. So, gusto ko yung mas bata. And talk to them about their practice, about their thought process. Karamihan syempre pagka-graduate mo, pag-pintor ka, mapupunta ka talaga sa art market side. Tapos baka kainin ka na nun. Tapos kapag hindi mo na penetrate, babagsak ka kaagad. So itong Marahuyo is trying to create a dialogue with the artist to understand na ito yung importante niyang initindihin, yung proseso mo, yung pag-intindi mo, and learn from each other practices, sa ibang artists din. So, yun yung Marahuyo art projects. We’re trying to develop that more, na ganun yung linkages niya. Artists talking to other artists through this particular exhibition. Hindi siya yung exhibition na sobrang nakakaintimidate minsan kasi it’s all about glamour of things. In reality, some of the spaces right now deal with artists because of the art market-side, the business side. Ganun talaga eh. Minsan mag-crecreate ng exhibition pero di mo alam ba’t magkakasama ‘tong mga artists na ‘to. Minsan nagiging parte ako nun dahil kailangan ko lang suportahan ung isang artist na kakilala ko. So, ok, sige, ooo ako. Gusto ko naman mag-paint eh. So, ok lang. Kung di mabebenta, ok lang. But the idea is may ganung work. May ganung klaseng exhibitions. That’s part of the ecology. So, ok lang yun. So, what you do is to create opportunities na hindi ganun. Kailangang balansehin. Di mo rin naman pwedeng sabihin na kailangan ano, kasi business nga yun. Di mo rin naman pwedeng patayin yung business kasi part siya nung ecology. That’s one of the things that I understood. I was part of that cycle, as an artist. Nadala rin ako dun sa aspetong iyon na akala ko lahat ng gagawin ko sa artworks, bubuhayin ako. Hirap palang matali sa idea na yun. I try to understand that. Same time nung nabuo ko yung BM Lab and same time nung pumasok ako sa CANVAS, sa career ko as an artist, akala ko yun na yun. Yun na yung plateau. Yung art market side. Nung ino-auction yung trabaho ko sa Sotheby’s tapos biglang gumanun. In a sense yung pag-ganun hindi ung bumaba yung ano, it’s more of akala mo yung atensyon wala na sa iyo. So kinain ako nun. Sabi ko, “Huh? Ba’t masyado akong conscious about that?” So, bumalik ako sa hindi pag-ano nun. Inintindi ko ung proseso then I talked about it. Iniexhibit ko iyon sa Vargas Museum. Sabi ko nga, “Parang mali na ganito ko lang tingnan yung sarili ko.” Yun ung pag-uusisa ko.
RS: Dahil nasagot niyo na rin po yung tungkol sa medyo glimpse na nasabi niyo po sa challenge ng pandemic sa pagcucurate, may gusto pa po ba kayong ishare on that? Hindi lang po yung dahil hindi siya napupuntahan ng kids.
JP: Nagkaroon ng sort of a pause in terms of the physical aspect experience ng pagtingin or even us going to a different space. Abroad, ibang lugar, o mas malayo. May takot pa rin. Although tinatry nating maging normal ung mga bagay-bagay, that particular part is still very essential to realize na hindi pa siya ganun ka stable. Tapos, if you put a show, of course if you have a space, halimbawa, Vargas Museum. May space sila. We can create that programming all throughout the year because yung space nila functioning independently sa kanila. Tapos dahil teacher din si Sir Patrick, it allows him to continuously create the space, and opportunities for different materials para pag-usapan. So, ok yun. Pero kung ikaw, kung ang function mo ay gallery, ang function mo lang ay business. Kaya after nun and even during the time of pandemic and up to now, nilipat lang nila sa virtual. But it’s all about selling the object. Pero two weeks. Two weeks’ time tapos di naman nakikita. Tapos palit na ulit. And wala namang effort to continuously talk about the artwork. So, nag-fefade yung exhibitions kapag galleries. After i-put up ng isang artist, after two weeks, tapos na. Kaya kahit inihayag mo lahat ng utak mo dun, walang continuous effort to talk about it, or even to archive, or even to create a platform na “Ito nga pala yung idea nitong exhibition na ito.” Hindi naman ganun. It’s all about, “Oh ito ay exhibit, may exhibit na ganito yung isang young artist or isang ano.” Two weeks’ time, kailangan makabili kayo dyan. Hindi naman ganun yung sinasabi. But the idea is even collectors and art patrons ganun yung kalakaran. Makikita mo na lang, “Hot si ganito ngayon.” Even that particular term, “hot si ganito”. I think that’s problematic. Ganun eh. Ganun yung ginagalawang nating mundong ngayon. Di lang sa Pilipinas. It’s all around us. Tapos nga ngayon they say that the power of artists is through NFTs are back to them because of the idea that they can control whatever they post. It’s all about the idea of currency. Kaya maganda na nababalanse yung iba’t ibang usapan, usapin.
So, with regards to the pandemic idea o yung idea of paano nga ba magtratransition o ano nga ba yung plano or efforts…ang Marahuyo Art Projects sinimulan namin ito pre-pandemic. Mga 2018, I think. Pero hindi pa siya yung katulad ngayon. Talagang pinag-iisipan na namin even before yung konsepto ng creating opportunities or dialogues or discussions sa online platform. Mas na-highlight lang nung naging pandemic kasi lahat nga napunta na sa ano. Pero talagang dun kami rin papunta. Kaya yung mga libro namin, makikita mo lahat yun, hindi naman lahat, pero naka-digitize sila. Pinamimigay namin siya virtually. Matagal na naming iniisip na talagang yung online platform is an important platform din to the audience. So, gusto pa namin siyang busisiin. Gusto namin pang mag-create ng opportunities for us, the artist, and the audience to use this particular platform. So, isa yan sa mga iniisip namin.
Yung Marahuyo Art Projects, hindi siya isang gallery. Sabi ko kay Sir Gigo, “We don’t call it as a gallery.” Kaya siya Marahuyo Art Projects. Dati Marahuyo Art Gallery yung tawag. Sabi ko hindi. Isa siyang hybrid na parang siyang magazine. Gusto nga namin at some point yung artist parang maglagay ng thesis nila dun. Parang siyang thesis proposal. Depende sa artist kung ano yung gusto nilang sabihin. Pero gusto ko kritikal din sila. Pero sa ngayon, puro mababaw pa yung pag-explain. Pero ok lang kasi may ganun naman. So ganun siya, parang siyang magazine feature, parang siyang website of course. Pero nagfunfunction siya na yung content niya ay ginawa ng artist mismo. Boses rin nila yung naririnig. It’s not the voice of us, curators. The curator is basically at the backstage, nandun sa backend. Wala kami dun sa front. Yun yung gusto naming image nun. So yun yung plano. Ang plano doon is to continue creating dialogues, inviting artists to encourage them, and at the same time, to challenge them to talk about their practice. Yung gusto kong i-tackle ngayon, yung mga artists na nasa plateau. Yung mga feeling nila, yun na yun. I’m pretty sure na there’s a lot. Na tipong paulit-ulit yung ginagawa. Minsan nagtataka ka lang. Iba na yung pinag-uusapan pero ganun pa rin yung itsura. Gusto kong malaman kung bakit.
RS: Parang po siyang artist development program?
JP: Parang part na rin siya nun. Aside sa museum, sinimulan din namin three years ago yung CANVAS AIR. Yung Artist in Residence. So, it’s all about that. We really like to engage critically with artists. Hands-on. And at the same time, on the ground. Tapos yung pag-uusap na parang ganito lang. Hindi yung masyadong academic. Pero syempre, at some point, depende rin sa tao kung saan niya dadalhin yung usapan. So, yun yung ok dun. So, in the future, yun yung nilolook-forward namin. Yung mga ganung klaseng programming ng CANVAS or Marahuyo Art Projects. Yun yung mga tinitingnan namin na gusto naming puntahan. Online in the sense na we don’t really create a virtual exhibition, gallery. Hindi yun yung gusto naming mangyari. We never did that in CANVAS because I opposed to it. Waste of time and at the same time, parang fake yung dating na parang ilalagay mo sa isang fake na wall yung isang artwork. Digital siya edi digital siya. Kung gusto niyo makita yung artwork, sa physical na. Kung yun yung concern nung tao. And we still produce books. Kasi mas naiisip namin na yun yung mas madaling ipamigay and at the same time, itago. So, mabubuhay pa rin yung isang project because of that particular book. Yun yung mga efforts namin. Continuous efforts on those things. Yun yung trajectory ng CANVAS in navigating through the changes that are happening. And dahil na rin may Marahuyo, we’re also looking at interacting or engaging with artists from abroad. Sa Marahuyo Art Projects, may dalawang Hapon na nakasama ko rin sa project namin sa BM Lab. Yung cultural engagement namin, nagpunta sila dito sa Manila tapos ininvite ko sila to respond to this. From there, we’re still looking more into talking to different artists from abroad and here, of course.
Malikot yung utak ng group. Di kami napapagod gumawa ng something kahit na feeling namin na nakakapagod. Kasi for example, right now, to be blunt about it, we’re also creating a big exhibition for VP Leni for February. So nasa point kami ng pag-gather ng mga artists. And nandidito ako sa stage na talagang kinakausap ko yung mga artists na hindi namin masyadong nakakatrabaho. Kilala ko sila pero hindi sila bagay usually sa CANVAS shows. Pero ok yun kasi we would really like to engage with a lot of different artists. We created this sort of exhibition or project that will hopefully unite a lot of artists. And gusto kasi namin by February. Pero mahirap sapawan sa discussion ung Art Fair Philippines. Pero ang gusto naming mangyari by February hindi yung Art Fair Philippines yung pinag-uusapan. So, yun yung goal. So how artists basically respond to the call to support one candidate that we believe in. So yun yung idea. An exhibition of artists who support the candidacy but at the same time yung sentiments, yung pinaglalaban, na yung artist community na ito believes in this. Ito sila. Isang malaking grupo sila. Medyo promising yung list. Binubuo pa namin. Magkakaroon din ng forum for that. Yun yung mga pupuntahan namin. We’re still creating books. Siguro ilan ba yung books next year, mga lima yata. Tapos may lalabas pa ngayon. Continuous lang ang paggawa.